HM Compatibility

[MeekRhino]

Hi everyone!

As part of a project I've been working on, I noticed that none of the Topaz learnsets include HMs. I created the following HM compatibility chart that I'd like you to take a look at and give me some feedback, if you have the time:

HM Compatibility Spreadsheet

[Cyndadile]

Looks pretty nice! I don't see anything that looks too off, but there's a couple of things I was thinking while reviewing the list. I'm not too familiar with what's normal for HM assignments in the original games, this is more gut level thoughts:

* Should Firant and Pyroon really have Cut? It doesn't make much sense for Pyroon, and Firant doesn't necessarily need it (plus if we give it to Firant, it means Pyroon will be able to use it).

* Lupine, Embear, and Snarliger feel a little small for Strength and Rock Smash

* In my head Arachmare's arms look pretty sharp, so Cut may make sense for it

* I don't see anything that looks super able to cut on Jackalant or Phantern

* I'd take Fly off of Skalloy - it's a baby pokemon and while Pidgey can somehow lift a human, I'm not sure a baby pokemon would have the strength

* I'm not so sure Polarice could survive underwater long enough for Dive

* Misticade I could see being at home in a waterfall, but carrying passengers like Surf and Waterfall require? It feels like it'd collapse under the weight to me

Balance-wise, I'm not seeing any of the columns for HMs looking like they have too few checkboxes, so I'm not too worried about people not being able to find a pokemon for the HMs they need - which is a very good thing.

[MeekRhino]

Thank you for the feedback! I think all of the criticism/feedback is solid. A few comments:

Firant/Pyroon - agreed

Lupine/Embear/Snarliger - I agree, but they fit with similar mons that learn the moves in gen 3 vanilla games. I could go either way on those.

Arachmare - agreed, definite oversight

Jackalant - my only defense here is Bellsprout learning cut

Skalloy - yes, agree

Polarice - I like the idea of having a non-water type that can dive, and I think it’s decent here. We have non-water-breathing mons in vanilla that can learn dive, and Polarice looks like a powerful swimmer, so I think it’s justifiable.

Misticade - I went back and forth on this a lot. I settled on giving it surf and waterfall because while it is ghostly, the raincoat itself is corporeal. I imagined it a bit like Aladdin’s magic carpet — not exactly “solid”, but somehow mystically/magically able to bear human weight. Let me know if you think that’s too flimsy of an argument.

[Cranky Guy]

Oh man, it's been forever since I poked my head in here.

[Cyndadile]

All those reasons are sound MeekRhino (similarities to other gen 3 games, bellsprout, polarice, misticade). Misticade is definitely the standout in that it's a tough call to make, but the magic carpet equivalent is a solid one. I think the other side is just where the mist goes. In my head, the pokemon is the mist, not the coat - like Mimikyu. I guess in this case the pokemon itself is not really swimming underwater, but the coat is trailing through the water for you to ride, and moving over the water is consistent with their pokedex entries. I'm kind of teetering on the edge either way for Misticade.

[MeekRhino]

What pushed me over the edge on Misticade was thinking about the frustration I would feel if I caught a cool water Pokemon for my team only to later learn that it couldn't use Surf. I think it's sufficiently arguable that we should just give it to it to save players that frustration.

[Cyndadile]

That's a very good point - unless I choose Echoise as my starter, Misticade would definitely end up as my team's water type (and even then I may just have both).

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

I don't see why the Staryu line couldn't still Surf.

Its versatility (and even ability to Surf) comes from its psychic(ish) powers, and the type change doesn't really affect that.