Revamp: Cleffa -> Clefairy -> Clefable

[ImmunityBow]

What CAN be revamped:
- Movesets (TMs and levelsets) - For TMs, please post the existing list even if you're making no changes, it makes my job much easier.
- Abilities
- Egg Moves (POST WITH FATHERS, PLEASE)

What CANNOT be revamped:
- Base stats

We're doing Cleffa -> Clefairy -> Clefable in this topic.

This one should be fun!

[NyteFyre]

Generation III movesets for all, so it's easier for others to change things up.

Key:
Cleffa/Clefairy/Clefable
- not Able
*TM learned

Level Up:
1/1/- Pound
1/1/- Charm
5/5/- Encore
9/9/1 Sing
-/13/1 Double Slap
13/-/- Sweet Kiss
-/17/- Follow Me
17/-/- Magical Leaf
-/21/1 Minimize
-/29/1 Metronome
-/33/- Cosmic Power
-/37/- Moonlight
-/41/- Light Screen
-/45/- Meteor Mash

By TM/HM:
TM01 -Focus Punch -/*/*
TM03 -Water Pulse */*/*
TM04 -Cal Mind -/*/*
TM06 -Toxic */*/*
TM10 -Hidden Power */*/*
TM11 -Sunny Day */*/*
TM13 -Ice Beam -/*/*
TM14 -Blizzard -/*/*
TM15 -Hyper Beam -/-/*
TM16 -Light Screen */*/ *
TM17 -Protect */*/*
TM18 -Rain Dance */*/*
TM20 -Safeguard */*/*
TM21 -Frustration */*/*
TM22 -SolarBeam */*/*
TM23 -Iron Tail */*/*
TM24 -Thunderbolt -/*/*
TM25 -Thunder -/*/*
TM27 -Return */*/*
TM28 -Dig */*/*
TM29 -Psychic */*/*
TM30 -Shadow Ball */*/*
TM31 -Brick Break -/*/*
TM32 -Double Team */*/*
TM33 -Reflect */*/*
TM34 -Shock Wave */*/*
TM35 -Flamethrower */*/*
TM38 -Fire Blast */*/*
TM42 -Facade */*/*
TM43 -Secret Power */*/*
TM44 -Rest */*/*
TM45 -Attract */*/*
TM49 -Snatch -/*/*
HM04 -Strength -/*/*
HM05-Flash */*/*

All 3 normally get Magic Guard, or Cute Charm.

[OddCrow]

Suggested new moves
Calm Wind
Flash Punch
Initiative
Light Wave
Magic Dust
Mystic Power
Serenade
Soothe Song
Statronome

[SilentSentinel]

New Egg Moves:

Light Wave (Coroona, Seraph, Phantasomo, Benengil)
Purify (Coroona, Seraph, Purior, Benengil)
Refresh (Seraph)
Mystic Power (Phantasomo)
Flash Punch (Purior)
Wish (Benengil, Togetic)
Metronome (Togetic)

Togetic's hasnt been done yet but I'm sure it will have Wish and Metronome. Cleffa's old egg moves pretty much sucked compared to these.

[NyteFyre]

agreed,it did suck. though no punches, like Flash Punch from Ohmure? since Clefairy (and by evolution Clefable) can use Meteor Mash, why can't Cleffa get a punch as an egg move, or what about chain breeds?

maybe:

Flash Punch (Ohmure and whatever else can breed them onto Cleffa)
Swift (Ohmure as well, and others)

Sorry, i didn't have time to look up others

Edit: saw Flash punch was on there, though why only Puriour can breed it onto Cleffa?

[OddCrow]

Sacrifice would work too, as it gets Healing Wish in DPPt/HGSS

[NyteFyre]

that could most likely work, though i don't know who has it...

[OddCrow]

Maybe just as a level up move

[NyteFyre]

that always works, though i guess it'd have to go to Clairy, since Clefable gets no level up moves, and Cleffa gets so few, like all baby pogeymanz...

[SilentSentinel]

You need to make sure you research thoroughly before suggesting egg moves. Flash punch cannot be directly bred to cleffa from Ohmure because they are from two different egg groups, ohmure from Ground and Clefable from Fairy. Things from different egg groups can't breed, so they can't pass on egg moves to the babies. I was planning on having sacrifice and meteor mash as level up moves anyway.

[NyteFyre]

oic, i thought Clefairy were ground/fairy, like Pikachu...

[ImmunityBow]

Yeah, unlike most cute normal Pokemon Clefairy isn't ground, probably due to the assumption is that it doesn't come from the planet but rather the moon.

[NyteFyre]

makes sense i guess...it's times like this when i wish i could find all the info on all the Topazmon, since i can't seem to find half of the info i need...i'm thinking that a lot of it's in the staff forum...but idk...

[SilentSentinel]

Move/Cleffa/Clefairy/Clefable

Mystic Power/-/-/1
Pound/1/1/1
Charm/1/1/1
Sing/5/5/1
Doubleslap/-/13/1
Sweet Kiss/12/-/-
Equillibrium/-/16/-
Magical Leaf/16/-/-
Magic Dust/-/21/-
Metronome/-/29/1
Statronome/-29/1
Cosmic power/-/33/-
Moonlight/-/37/-
Light Screen/-/40/-
Sacrifice/-/-/42
Meteor Mash/-/45/-


Possible move list? I wanted to make Sacrifice Clefable only to make the moveset a little more interesting. Magic Guard is a D/P ability, so Cute Charm and maybe Element Sheild? Or just one ability? C & C appreciated of course.

[ImmunityBow]

Looks good. Element Shield actually sounds like a wonderful idea, though when you think about it, it was designed for a dual-type Pokemon. Giving Clefable that extra Normal resistance would make it really happy though. To make things interesting, what about Conversion as a move relearner move?

@NyteFyre, most of the info you need should be in this forum (http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?26-Caldera-Kirant-Pokedex). Pretty much everything should be in there, though some of them might be very slightly out of date due to small changes over the past while.

[SilentSentinel]

Alrighty, here's what we have so far:

Abilities: Cute Charm/Element Sheild

Moveset:

Conversion/-/-/1
Mystic Power/-/-/1
Pound/1/1/1
Charm/1/1/1
Sing/5/5/1
Doubleslap/-/13/1
Sweet Kiss/12/-/-
Equillibrium/-/16/-
Magical Leaf/16/-/-
Magic Dust/-/21/-
Metronome/-/29/1
Statronome/-29/1
Cosmic power/-/33/-
Moonlight/-/37/-
Light Screen/-/40/-
Sacrifice/-/-/42
Meteor Mash/-/45/-

TMs:

TM01 -Focus Punch -/*/*
TM03 -Water Pulse */*/*
TM04 -Cal Mind -/*/*
TM06 -Toxic */*/*
TM10 -Hidden Power */*/*
TM11 -Sunny Day */*/*
TM13 -Ice Beam -/*/*
TM14 -Blizzard -/*/*
TM15 -Hyper Beam -/-/*
TM16 -Light Screen */*/ *
TM17 -Protect */*/*
TM18 -Rain Dance */*/*
TM20 -Safeguard */*/*
TM21 -Frustration */*/*
TM22 -SolarBeam */*/*
TM23 -Iron Tail */*/*
TM24 -Thunderbolt -/*/*
TM25 -Thunder -/*/*
TM27 -Return */*/*
TM28 -Dig */*/*
TM29 -Psychic */*/*
TM30 -Shadow Ball */*/*
TM31 -Brick Break -/*/*
TM32 -Double Team */*/*
TM33 -Reflect */*/*
TM34 -Shock Wave */*/*
TM35 -Flamethrower */*/*
TM38 -Fire Blast */*/*
TM42 -Facade */*/*
TM43 -Secret Power */*/*
TM44 -Rest */*/*
TM45 -Attract */*/*
TM49 -Snatch -/*/*
TM53 -Focus Sight*/*/*
TM55 -Endure*/*/*
TM57 -Iron Fist-/-/*
TM59 -Soul Burn-/*/*
TM61 -Umbrage-/-/*
TM65 -Zigzag*/*/*
TM66 -Holy Fist-/*/*
TM71 -Statronome*/*/*
TM72 -Initiative*/*/*
TM75 -Sleep Talk*/*/*
TM78 Substitute*/*/*
TM79 -Rocket Punch*/*/*
TM80 -Orion's Sword*/*/*
HM04 -Strength -/*/*
HM05 -Flash */*/*

Egg Moves:

Light Wave (Coroona, Seraph, Phantasomo, Benengil)
Purify (Coroona, Seraph, Purior, Benengil)
Refresh (Seraph)
Mystic Power (Phantasomo)
Flash Punch (Purior)
Wish (Benengil, Togetic)
Metronome (Togetic)

Could use some comments on what Topaz TMs they should get, I just threw ones that seemed like they would kinda fit on there.

[ImmunityBow]

Here's my go:

51 Flare
52 False Swipe
53 Focus Sight
55 Endure
57 Iron Fist
58 Nightfall
63 Water Wall
65 Zigzag
66 Holy Fist
71 Statronome
72 Initiative
75 Sleep Talk
78 Substitute
79 Rocket Punch
80 Orion’s Sword

Took out Soul Burn and Umbrage because I don't feel they fit with Clefairy's innocence. Nightfall made sense so I included it, Flare as well since Clefable has Flamethrower and Fire Blast. Water Wall helps Clefable stabilize its supporting role and gives a basic resist to Fire, Water and Ice along with the Ghost and new Normal immunities.

[SilentSentinel]

Makes sense to me.

TMs:

TM01 -Focus Punch -/*/*
TM03 -Water Pulse */*/*
TM04 -Cal Mind -/*/*
TM06 -Toxic */*/*
TM10 -Hidden Power */*/*
TM11 -Sunny Day */*/*
TM13 -Ice Beam -/*/*
TM14 -Blizzard -/*/*
TM15 -Hyper Beam -/-/*
TM16 -Light Screen */*/ *
TM17 -Protect */*/*
TM18 -Rain Dance */*/*
TM20 -Safeguard */*/*
TM21 -Frustration */*/*
TM22 -SolarBeam */*/*
TM23 -Iron Tail */*/*
TM24 -Thunderbolt -/*/*
TM25 -Thunder -/*/*
TM27 -Return */*/*
TM28 -Dig */*/*
TM29 -Psychic */*/*
TM30 -Shadow Ball */*/*
TM31 -Brick Break -/*/*
TM32 -Double Team */*/*
TM33 -Reflect */*/*
TM34 -Shock Wave */*/*
TM35 -Flamethrower */*/*
TM38 -Fire Blast */*/*
TM42 -Facade */*/*
TM43 -Secret Power */*/*
TM44 -Rest */*/*
TM45 -Attract */*/*
TM49 -Snatch -/*/*
TM51 -Flare */*/*
TM52 -False Swipe */*/*
TM53 -Focus Sight */*/*
TM55 -Endure */*/*
TM57 -Iron Fist -/*/*
TM58 -Nightfall */*/*
TM63 -Water Wall */*/*
TM65 -Zigzag */*/*
TM66 -Holy Fist */*/*
TM71 -Statronome */*/*
TM72 -Initiative */*/*
TM75 -Sleep Talk */*/*
TM78 -Substitute */*/*
TM79 -Rocket Punch */*/*
TM80 -Orion's Sword */*/*

Didn't give Cleffa Iron Fist since it seems to be a bit of a lightweight for that. The others still get it though.

[NyteFyre]

everything looks good to go to me!

[OddCrow]

Not sure about Zigzag, as I don't see any of them being particularly nimble/agile.

[NyteFyre]

they have to be, if they can evade humans as well as they do. Clefairy are considered rare, seeing as few have ever seen, let alone captured one...so, in that context, zigzag fits....at least to me...

[Mediocrity_Incarnate]

I think everything looks good.

[SilentSentinel]

Bump. Needs more comments/suggestions.

[Zenith]

Nightfall? If it isn't a levelup move, then make it a Tutor Move for Clefable or an Egg Move (don't know enough of the old movesets to know who they would get it from, though).

[SilentSentinel]

Nightfall is on as a TM move.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

they have to be, if they can evade humans as well as they do. Clefairy are considered rare, seeing as few have ever seen, let alone captured one...so, in that context, zigzag fits....at least to me...

Or they could, you know, actually be rare? maybe?

[NyteFyre]

well yeah, of course, I'm just saying is all.

[Zenith]

Nightfall is on as a TM move.

Hey, Charizard can learn Flamethrower through a TM. Gengar can learn Shadow Ball through a TM. They also learn those moves naturally. Cleffa/fairy/fable learning Nightfall through a TM doesn't mean we can't have them learn it through a different way as well. And summoning night makes sense with a species so focused on the moon, which is commonly associated with night.

[SilentSentinel]

I usually don't like to cram levelsets, so it'll need to go on Clefable somewhere. Would you prefer it as a relearner or L evel up at maybe 53?

[Zenith]

Relearner. We already have Sacrifice as a levelup move.

Personally, I'm a little worried about basically having to choose between Sacrifice and Meteor Mash. Any way we can move Sacrifice up to 45?

Looking through Chefable's 3rd & 4th Gen movesets on Smogon, I noticed that Softboiled is a big part of a lot of them. Since the Chansey line isn't in Topaz, and Clefable only gets Wish through breeding, we need to make it up to the species somehow.

[Quinn]

Not to get off topic of Cleffa's Line, but are there others as well that need to be done? If I was smart when it came to breeding, I could work with that, but, I'm defiantly not (along with spriting and competitively battling). I'm mostly doin maps, trainers, and some move animations now...so I could kill some time returning to my roots.

[ImmunityBow]

From what I understand, things seem mostly okay as far as this line goes, though a lot of the opinions here don't necessarily come from some of our newer members.

Is everyone alright with this?

[Tyrannigon64]

For the TMs, does * mean the Pokemon can or can't learn toe move?

[ImmunityBow]

* means it can, - means it can't.

[Noog]

Zigzag seems a bit out of place on the TM list. None of the members of the line seem to be very agile (actually, Clefable has a fairly low base Speed), and their rarity might be due to a low amount of them on the planet in the first place.

Equilibrium might work as an egg move from Phantasomo. Also, Clefable gets Heal Bell as a tutor move in HG/SS, so it could fit as an egg move, also from Phantasomo.

[ImmunityBow]

If I remember correctly, everything learns Zigzag (for the same reason everything learns Double Team, I guess).

Those are good Egg Move suggestions, but the list is starting to get long, and there are reasons against them as well. Firstly, since Clefairy already learns Equilibrium by level up, it's not as necessary to have as an Egg Move. As for Heal Bell, it already gets Purify from Egg Moves, which is functionally the same (which makes me wonder why we put both on Phantasomo, but I digress), so there's no need to take up another slot on essentially the same move.

[SilentSentinel]

Bump.

[ImmunityBow]

Just raising the concern that Clefable has 8 relearner moves compared to 4 from B/W. Pound and Charm strike me as unnecessary relearner moves, which would bring it down to 4 + 2 new moves we gave it from relearner (Mystic Power and Conversion)

[SilentSentinel]

Sure, sure. Those two are a bit unnecessary, and I'd agree with dropping them in favor of the much more interesting Mystic Power and Conversion.

[ImmunityBow]

Just to be clear they could still remain level 1 moves on Cleffa and Clefairy, just not Clefable.

[SilentSentinel]

Of course.

Anyone have anything else to add?

[ImmunityBow]

Nope, it looks fine to me. Anyone else?

[Reliability]

Looks fine to me. Everything seems appropriate.

[SilentSentinel]

Very well then. I'm gonna try to put together another line here at some point. If not tomorrow, it will likely be sometime late in the week.